The significance of Richard Pinhas in France corresponds to that of Edgar Froese and Klaus Schulze in Germany: he is the founder, the father figure of electronic music. In contrast to Jean-Michel Jarre, he never gave himself to commerce, never allowed himself to be seduced by theatrical gestures, always remained true to his spirit of research. Since the early seventies he acquired an enormous reputation with his bands Schizo and Heldon and later with countless solo albums.
And even after almost 50 years of a career in music, he is still committed to experimentation. Now Pinhas presents two new albums: "Mu" is a collaboration with the Californian electronic musician Barry Cleveland, "Process And Reality" was created together with the Japanese noise avant-gardists Merzbow and Yoshida Tatsuya. eclipsed talked to the pioneer not only about music, but also about his philosophy and world politics.
eclipsed: With "Mu" and "Process And Reality" you released two albums at the same time. In 2014 you already did that with "Welcome In The Void" and "Tikkun". Is there a system behind this?
Richard Pinhas: No, not really. Only one album is planned for next year, which by the way has already been recorded and only needs to be mixed. Now it's more of a coincidence: More and more people are involved in the production of the albums. It doesn't always give you control over when something's done. To be honest, when I have nothing to read and I'm bored, I produce music. Gladly with other musicians.
eclipsed: Apart from the different musicians, please describe the differences between the two albums.
Pinhas: The albums are very different. "Mu has been recorded with American friends. That was a lot of work. It's very "constructed." With many, many instruments and large arrangements. Also the mix was very complex. Barry Cleveland put a lot of work into it afterwards. That was an exciting experiment. "I recorded "Process And Reality" with my favorite Japanese team, Merzbow and Yoshida Tatsuya. There will be a two-week tour of Japan. I love playing with the Japanese. It feels very good with them. They're very extreme.
eclipsed: You recorded the albums on both sides of the Pacific...
Pinhas: Yes, one in San Francisco, the other in Tokyo.
eclipsed: In San Francisco, you recorded Mu. With a track called "Zen/Unzen". Wouldn't he rather have been in Tokyo?
Pinhas: Oh, "Mu" is not a Japanese word, it means the Greek letter "μ". But that's not the concept. Barry picked the title. I don't care about the titles or the names of the tracks. But of course everyone can understand or interpret the title in a different way.
eclipsed: On "Mu" you worked for the first time with bassist Michael Manring and drummer Celso Alberti. A special challenge?
Pinhas: I had already played some rehearsals with the two of them. That was longer ago. But now we wanted to record the stuff too.
eclipsed: They seem to be the secret stars of the album. For example, they dominate the track "I Wish I Could Talk In Technicolor" with their play.
Pinhas: Oh yes, even though the album is a joint effort of Barry and me, they are still very much involved. What track do you mean? I have to admit that I couldn't remember the names of the tracks from the beginning.
eclipsed: "I Wish I Could Talk In Technicolor" is the 26-minute long track.
Pinhas: Ah yes, Celso has a huge drum kit, also a big electronic drum kit. And in retrospect, he recorded more drums. Barry then mixed it fantastically. By the way, I can hardly remember the names of songs in general. I know the music of Jimi Hendrix very well, but I don't know the titles of the songs. I remember the music, but not the titles. For new albums I simply assign numbers or letters as titles.
eclipsed: If you could actually speak Technicolor, what would you say?
Pinhas: I'd be real quiet. Or I'd say, "Stop destroying Aleppo."
eclipsed: "Mu" was recorded at Jamsessions in 2013 and consists of improvisations. Barry Cleveland started the postproduction. How much has he changed?
Pinhas: He did a lot in his studio in Oakland. I have made some comments and suggestions. I guess 80 percent of all the work on this album was done after the recordings in the studio in Oakland. Barry hasn't changed many basic things, but he has changed enormously important things.
eclipsed: The other album, "Process And Reality", you recorded with your old friends Merzbow and Yoshida Tatsuya. How'd the cooperation go this time?
Pinhas: Well, first of all Yoshida played drums and Merzbow played the synthesizers. My guitar was of course digitally reworked and alienated. She doesn't sound like guitar at all. So nobody hears a guitar. This album is a joint effort. We tried to do it all in threes.
eclipsed: With "Process And Reality" you try to translate a pessimistic view of the current world situation and modern society into music, without lyrics. How can you convey the content?
Pinhas: I think music can be more expressive than words. Anyone can express something with words. But with music you can be more dramatic, more expressive, more effective. For me, a book by the English philosopher Alfred North Whitehead was important: "Prozess und Realität" (Process and Reality) from 1929. Of course, the album title is also derived from this book.
eclipsed: Whitehead was also a mathematician.
Pinhas: Yes, he was a studied mathematician, and when he retired, he devoted himself to philosophy and became a great philosopher. The book is a vision of how the world could evolve over 20 or 30 years. How she could be a better one. Better than you see it with your own eyes. The world is anything but perfect right now.
eclipsed: Do you think the listener who knows nothing about this context will recognize him only by listening to the music?
Pinhas: I hope so. I don't think that's important. Instead, it is important that we, the musicians, like what we have created. And also that the listener likes it. He can think for himself what he wants. You can interpret it any way you want.
eclipsed: In recent years you have chosen this theme on various albums: the downfall or collapse of the modern world. Is that some kind of philosophy behind your music?
Pinhas: We are currently in a phase in which the world is changing. It's a really bad time for this generation. I travel around the world a lot and play a lot of concerts. I see a lot there. And I get the impression that a lot of things are going down the drain.
eclipsed: If you think of all the current problems in the world: terrorism, the war in Syria, the conflict in Ukraine, the flow of refugees, the financial crisis, the Brexit..
Pinhas: Oh, I think the biggest problem is neoliberalism. Not to mention the American bombings in the Middle East. On the other hand, however, I also think it was a mistake that we in Europe did not prepare sufficiently for the flow of refugees. For 20 or 30 years it has been foreseeable that one day many, many people from the poorer regions of the world would come to Europe. Now some people in France are afraid that their homeland will become a Muslim country, because a not small minority is trying to introduce Sharia law. It's a problem. It's really bad in the suburbs of France.
eclipsed: Do you think all this will lead to a breakdown or will we find solutions?
Pinhas: That depends on the respective country. I don't know that much about the conditions in Germany. I think things could go well in England. But I'm afraid it could very quickly lead to a collapse in France. Just one drop can overflow the barrel. The mood can change quickly. For example, in hospitals or post offices, incidents occur more often because many people are angry or even aggressive - because of religious things. And yet we still live in a free society. We do not live in a religious country, which hopefully will never happen again. And as far as Europe as a whole is concerned, I really do not know how it will end.
eclipsed: You have a Ph.D. in philosophy. What influence does philosophy have on your music? Or asked the other way around: Are your albums perhaps a philosophy that has become music?
Pinhas: My studies of philosophy were essentially concerned with the concepts of time, event, repetition, delay and duration. In fact, this is exactly what my music reflects: repetitions, sequences, the same basic principle, the same operative process and the same philosophical reflection, among others inspired by Friedrich Nietzsche, the famous German philosopher.
eclipsed: Famous and infamous.
Pinhas: Not necessarily. If you're just busy with him enough, it's not such a difficult stuff. When I suddenly want to play drums as a guitarist, it's difficult at first. But if I really want to, I can try to learn. It's difficult at first, but over time it can get easier. There is quite easily accessible poetry in "So sprach Zarathustra". But don't feel obliged to read Nietzsche now. But in my opinion there are some really important novelists, like Franz Kafka or William Faulkner.
eclipsed: Back to the music. Are there musicians or artists who have inspired and influenced you lately?
Pinhas: Okay, Jimi Hendrix or King Crimson, who certainly had an influence, I don't think I can answer that question. From the current music scene I have to mention two fantastic artists who have fascinated me over the last ten years: Godspeed You! Black Emperor. I've seen them live a few times. The other is Aphex Twin. I think Richard James of Aphex Twin is a genius. He now plays the role that Brian Eno played 40 years ago. When I play live, especially at festivals, I also see many electronic bands. I am then very surprised that many of these - I estimate 90 percent - only reproduce the music of the 70s, such as the Berlin school. But sometimes I get surprised. There are unknown bands who dare to try something new and are very good.
eclipsed: You just mentioned the Berlin school. A word to Edgar Froese, please.
Pinhas: He has done very important things. I myself discovered the music of Edgar Froese and Klaus Schulze very late. That was in 1975. A few years after I started making music. I love the first albums of Tangerine Dream. But at some point it seemed to me that it was just a repetition of the same music. For me the most important German band is Kraftwerk. I especially like her early works. I have seen them live many times, also in 2013 at the Sonar Festival in Barcelona and only last year in November in Nantes. They're still fantastic. They perform their music live more extravagantly than any other German band, with the exception of Rammstein of course. I mean, Edgar Froese was important. If you make four or five important albums that people will always remember, then you have already achieved a lot. Jimi Hendrix has produced three such albums, and he is the most important rock guitarist of all time. But in the end, Edgar Froese's work did not influence me, because I got to know it late.
eclipsed: If someone calls you the Edgar Froese or the Klaus Schulze of France, how do you react?
Pinhas: Oh, I'm more of a rock'n'roller myself. You can call me anything you want. I don't care. I don't care. But of course it's a compliment when people call me that because I have a lot of respect for both.
eclipsed: There is also a big difference between the two and you because after all these years you are still experimenting. Is that why you feel more like the Robert Fripp of electronic music?
Pinhas: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Robert and I have been friends for a long time. We've met a lot. If you look at my former band Heldon in the 70s, it was different from King Crimson, different from anything else. Many people compare Heldon to Throbbing Gristle. I have a lot of respect for King Crimson.
eclipsed: Your career as a musician now lasts almost half a century. What were the highlights for you?
Pinhas: Especially in the last five years I have played some fantastic concerts in my eyes, some alone, some with my Japanese friends. I also like the 2014 album "Welcome In The Void" very much. The bad thing about today is that the Internet makes us musicians very poor, because hardly anyone sells CDs or records anymore. I get very little money from Spotify or similar platforms. I therefore prefer to offer as much as possible for free on the net, but not in MP3 format, but SoundCloudin top quality with top mixing. If you SoundCloudcheck it out, you'll see I've provided hours and hours of music there. Richard James of Aphex Twin did the same. It's just a political thing.
eclipsed: What's coming up for you in the near future?
Pinhas: I'm going to give some more concerts in France. Afterwards it goes to the USA for 18 concerts, followed by Japan. Then I'll come home and go to sleep. At the beginning of next year, in January or February, there will also be a surprise in Germany. I don't want to tell you anything yet.
eclipsed: Is your live music different from the studio albums?
Pinhas: Live it is very loud. Yes, we play very loud, that's the way it is with the Japanese. That's just noise. Even if we don't make noise music. With Merzbow, Yoshida and also with Keiji Haino it is always loud. We've played as a quartet a couple of times, in Tokyo and at a festival in Canada. In November we will give more concerts as a quartet. You can expect it to get loud.
eclipsed: Is the volume part of the art for you?
Pinhas: It is certainly necessary in order to set the bodies of the spectators in motion. Volume is important because it is an essential building block in the history of rock'n'roll. As already said: I see myself more at home in Rock'n'Roll than in electronic music.
* * * Interview: Bernd Sievers
